Grade 1 Titanium Welded Tube ASTM B861 for Marine and Industrial Applications

• Customization: Available
• Type: Titanium Pipes
• Application: Industrial, Medical
• Model NO.: Grade 1 titanium tube
• Technique: Hot Rolled
• Grade: Gr1 Grade1
• Shape: Round
• Standards: Astmb861 B862 B338 ASME Sb861 Sb862 Sb338
• Titanium Plate Grade: Grade 1 Uns R50250
• Transport Package: Wooden Box
• Specification: φ 6.35mm-φ 1219mm
• Trademark: Daxun
• Origin: China
• Production Capacity: 1000ton

Product Description

Product Parameters

 

Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Specification	ASTM B338 / ASTM B861 / ASTM B862 / ASME SB338 / ASME SB861 / ASME SB862
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Grades	Commercially pure titanium Grade 1- TA1- USN 50250
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Type	ot Rolled / Cold Drawn / Welded / ERW
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Outer Diameter Size	Titanium seamless pipe - φ1.0mm to φ508.3mm
	Titanium welded pipe - φ6.0mm to φ1219mm
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Wall Thickness	0.3mm-50mm (customizable wall thickness)
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Length	5 to 7 Meters, 09 to 13 Meters, Single Random Length, Double Random Length And Customize Size.
Titanium pipe Form	' Hollow, U' bent, LSAW, Hydraulic, Straight Tube, Boiler, Round, Tube Coil, Square, Rectangular Etc
Marking	All Titanium Tubes Tubing are marked as follows: Grade, Standard, Thickness, OD, Heat No., Length (Or according to the customer's request.)
Uses of Titanium Alloy Tubes	Gas pipes, oil pipes, heat exchanger tubes, boiler tubes, fluid pipes, titanium exhaust pipes.
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Pipe Ends	Plain Ends / Beveled Ends
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Delivery Conditions	As Rolled, Cold Drawn, Hot Finish, Stress Relieved, Annealed, Hardened, Tempered
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Coating	Electropolish, Mechanical Polish, Satin Finish, Passivated
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Other Testing	ardness Test, Hydrostatic Test, Eddy Current test, Eddy Current, Tensile Test, Flattening, Flare Test, Annealed, Hydrostatic Test, Tempered, Stress Relieved etc.
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Dimension	All Pipes Is Manufactured and Inspected / Tested to the Relevant standards including ASTM And ASME
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Value Added Services	Draw / Expansion / Machining / Sand Blasting / Shot Blasting / Heat Treatment
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Packaging	Loose / Bundle / Wooden Pallet / Wooden box-a / Plastic Cloth Wraps / Plastic End Caps / Beveled Protector
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Shipment & Transportation	By Road - Truck / Train, By Sea - Break-bulk Conventional Vessel / FCL (Full Container Load) / LCL (Less Container Load) / 20 Feet Container / 40 Feet Container / 45 Feet Container / High Cube Container / Open Top Container, By Air - Freighter Civil Passenger and Cargo Planes
Grade 1 Titanium pipe & Tubes Material Test Certificate	Manufacturer Test Certificate As Per EN10204 3.1, 3.2 / Laboratory Test Certificate From NABL Approved Lab. / Under Third Party Inspection Agency Like SGS, TUV, DNV, LLOYDS, ABS ETC

 

Detailed Photos

Titanium Tube Manufacturing Types: Titanium Welded Tube
Our tubular products are crafted from high-quality strips, meticulously roll-formed, and fusion-welded along a longitudinal seam. Utilizing advanced welding techniques, Daxun ensures no filler metals are employed during the welding process, guaranteeing superior integrity and performance.

Titanium Welded & Drawn Tubing
Our tubular products are initially welded and then expertly redrawn to achieve the final, precise size. This method is ideal for producing heavy wall diameter tubes that are challenging to weld directly to size, providing significant cost savings compared to seamless tubes. All Daxun welded and drawn tubes undergo a bright annealing process for exceptional quality.

Titanium Seamless Tubing
Our seamless tubular products are precision-drawn from tube hollows, created by either piercing billets or through a hot extrusion process. This method is perfect for achieving very heavy diameter-to-wall ratios, offering excellent dimensional tolerances and superior quality.

 

Quality, Delivery, Inspection

Daxun conducts comprehensive quality assurance tests including flattening, flaring, ultrasonic flaw detection, pitting resistance, mechanical, hardness, material identification, and expansion tests. These rigorous tests ensure our Grade 1 Titanium Welded and Seamless Pipes meet stringent application requirements. We meticulously measure diameter, thickness, and surface quality during production. Standard delivery time is 5-7 days, with special sizes delivered in 15-20 days.

• Our delivery time is strictly adhered to as per the contract.
• We support customer inspections by third-party agencies at our factory.
• Free samples are available for customer testing.
• We support both on-site and video factory inspections.

 

Grade 1 Titanium Tube Features

Grade 1 Titanium Tube, known for being the softest form of titanium, boasts the highest ductility. It excels in cold forming, provides exceptional corrosion resistance, and offers excellent welding properties paired with high impact toughness.

• Softest Titanium
• Highest Ductility
• Excellent Corrosion Resistance
• Good Cold Formability

 

Commercially Pure Titanium Grade 1 Tube is one of the most ductile and formable types. It is predominantly used in maritime and chemical industries where components face extremely harsh conditions. The ultimate tensile strength of SB 338 Gr 1 Tube is a minimum of 35 KSI (240 MPa), with yield strength ranging from 25 to 45 KSI (170 to 310 MPa). Known as TA1, Titan Grade 1, and Gr 1, this non-alloyed, low-strength titanium tube features low oxygen concentration and superb formability, ideal for chemical industries, heat exchangers, and desalination facilities.

Grade 1 Titanium Tube is also ideal for manufacturing exhaust systems, charge air pipes, and water pipes. We offer tubes with a thickness of 1.2 mm and diameters ranging from 51 mm to 102 mm, which are common sizes for exhaust systems. These tubes maintain stability and strength even at higher exhaust gas temperatures.

Daxun certifies and rigorously tests our titanium alloy tubes according to ASME SB/ASTM, B861, and B862 standards. This includes hardness testing, hydrostatic testing, eddy current testing, ultrasonic defect identification, tensile testing, flattening, expansion testing, annealing, tempering, stress relief, and more to ensure unmatched quality and reliability.

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Packaging & Shipping

Company Profile

Titanium Seamless Tubes
Daxun produces:
Hot-finished Titanium Tubes
Our tubes are meticulously supplied in various forms including hot-rolled or hot-extruded, straightened, with precision-machined inside and outside diameters, and polished to a pristine surface. Available in both heat-treated and non-heat-treated forms, our titanium tubes are backed by our company's 100% ultrasonic flaw detection capabilities for unparalleled quality assurance.
Titanium Tube Materials Available:
Hot-rolled Titanium Tubes: - Outer Diameter (OD) ranges from 19mm to 325mm, with wall thickness options of 9mm to 30mm, and lengths extending up to 5000mm (customizable per mutual agreement between manufacturer and customer). - Hot-extruded Titanium Tubes: - OD spans from 50mm to 160mm, with wall thicknesses between 7mm to 35mm, and lengths up to 3000mm (customizable per mutual agreement).
Cold-finished Titanium Tubes
Our Cold-finished Titanium Tubes are supplied in forms that include heat-treated, surface-etched varieties, and are rigorously hydrostatically or ultrasonically tested to meet stringent manufacturing specifications. Tubes Supplied: - OD ranges from 6mm to 89mm, with wall thicknesses between 0.5mm to 11mm, and lengths reaching up to 6000mm (customizable through mutual agreement).

Titanium Welded Pipes
DaXun specializes in manufacturing and supplying titanium pipes with diameters from 12.7mm to 38.1mm (0.47in to 1.5in), wall thicknesses from 0.4mm to 1.65mm (0.016in to 0.065in). The lengths of these pipes are available up to 25000mm. We produce Gr1, Gr2, and Gr12 titanium alloy pipes, tailored for the engineering and chemical industries. Our titanium welded pipes originate from flat-rolled raw materials and are crafted using automatic tungsten inert gas (argon) welding on electric pipe welders, followed by on-line heat treatment. Each finished pipe undergoes stringent mechanical testing, geometrical measurements, 100% ultrasonic and eddy current testing, and either pneumatic or hydrostatic testing. Packaging is conducted according to customer specifications. Our robust manufacturing processes and state-of-the-art inspection test equipment ensure that our thin-wall welded pipes strictly comply with ASTM B 338 and ASME SB 338 standards.

CP GR1 Titanium tube PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
Physical Properties	Metric	English	Comments
Density	4.50 g/cc	0.163 lb/in³
a Lattice Constant	2.95 Å @Temperature 25.0 °C	2.95 Å @Temperature 77.0 °F	alpha phase
	3.29 Å @Temperature 900 °C	3.29 Å @Temperature 1650 °F	beta phase
c Lattice Constant	4.683 Å	4.683 Å @Temperature 77.0 °F	c/a = 1.587
Mechanical Properties	Metric	English	Comments
Hardness, Brinell	120	120	annealed
Hardness, Knoop	132	132	Estimated from Brinell.
Hardness, Rockwell B	70	70	annealed
Hardness, Vickers	122	122	Estimated from Brinell.
Tensile Strength	124 - 138 MPa @Temperature 427 °C	18000 - 20000 psi @Temperature 801 °F
	152 - 179 MPa @Temperature 316 °C	22000 - 26000 psi @Temperature 601 °F
	193 - 207 MPa @Temperature 204 °C	28000 - 30000 psi @Temperature 399 °F
Tensile Strength, Ultimate	240 MPa	34800 psi
Tensile Strength, Yield	170 - 310 MPa	24700 - 45000 psi
	76.0 - 90.0 MPa @Temperature 427 °C	11000 - 13100 psi @Temperature 801 °F	0.2% offset
	83.0 - 103 MPa @Temperature 316 °C	12000 - 14900 psi @Temperature 601 °F	0.2% offset
	110 - 124 MPa @Temperature 204 °C	16000 - 18000 psi @Temperature 399 °F	0.2% offset
Elongation at Break	24%	24%
	25 - 30 % @Temperature 427 °C	25 - 30 % @Temperature 801 °F
	30 - 35 % @Temperature 316 °C	30 - 35 % @Temperature 601 °F
	40 - 50 % @Temperature 204 °C	40 - 50 % @Temperature 399 °F
Reduction of Area	35%	35%
Tensile Modulus	103 GPa	14900 ksi
Compressive Modulus	110 GPa	16000 ksi
Poissons Ratio	0.37	0.37
Shear Modulus	45.0 GPa	6530 ksi
Charpy Impact	310 J	229 ft-lb	V-notch
Impact Test	136 J	100 ft-lb	Impact Strength
Coefficient of Friction, Dynamic	0.68	0.68	Ti sliding on Ti; 300 m/min
	0.8	0.8	Ti sliding on Ti; 40 m/min

 

CP GR2 Titanium tube PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
Density	Magnetic Permeability
0.163 lbs/in-3	Nonmagnetic
4.51 g/cm-3	Electrical Resistivity
Beta Transus (+/-25°F, +/--3.9°C)	21 µΩ/in
1680°F	0.53 µΩ/m
915°C	Elastic Modulus
Thermal Conductivity	15.2-17.4 Msi
12.60 BTU hr-1ft-1 °F-1	105-120 GPa
21.79 W m-1 °C-1	Typical values at room temperature of about 68-78°F (20-25°C)

 

GR5 TI6AL4V Titanium tube PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
Physical Properties	Metric	English	Comments
Density	4.43 g/cc	0.16 lb/in³
Mechanical Properties
Hardness, Brinell	334	334	Estimated from Rockwell C.
Hardness, Knoop	363	363	Estimated from Rockwell C.
Hardness, Rockwell C	36	36
Hardness, Vickers	349	349	Estimated from Rockwell C.
Tensile strength	min. 895MPa	129810 psi
Yield strength	min. 828MPa	120090 psi
Elongation at Break	min.10 %	10 %
Reduction of Area	min.25 %	25 %
Modulus of Elasticity	113.8 GPa	16500 ksi
Compressive Yield Strength	970 MPa	141000 psi
Notched Tensile Strength	1450 MPa	210000 psi	Kt (stress concentration factor) = 6.7
Ultimate Bearing Strength	1860 MPa	270000 psi	e/D = 2
Bearing Yield Strength	1480 MPa	215000 psi	e/D = 2
Poisson's Ratio	0.342	0.342
Charpy Impact	17 J	12.5 ft-lb	V-notch
Fatigue Strength	240 MPa	34800 psi	at 1E+7 cycles. Kt (stress concentration factor) = 3.3
Fatigue Strength	510 MPa	74000 psi	Unnotched 10,000,000 Cycles
Fracture Toughness	75 MPa-m½	68.3 ksi-in½
Shear Modulus	44 GPa	6380 ksi
Shear Strength	550 MPa	79800 psi	Ultimate shear strength
Electrical Properties
Electrical Resistivity	0.000178 ohm-cm	0.000178 ohm-cm
Magnetic Permeability	1.00005	1.00005	at 1.6kA/m
Magnetic Susceptibility	3.30E-06	3.30E-06	cgs/g
Thermal Properties
CTE, linear 20°C	8.6 µm/m-°C	4.78 µin/in-°F	20-100ºC
CTE, linear 250°C	9.2 µm/m-°C	5.11 µin/in-°F	Average over the range 20-315ºC
CTE, linear 500°C	9.7 µm/m-°C	5.39 µin/in-°F	Average over the range 20-650ºC
Specific Heat Capacity	0.5263 J/g-°C	0.126 BTU/lb-°F
Thermal Conductivity	6.7 W/m-K	46.5 BTU-in/hr-ft²-°F
Melting Point	1604 - 1660 °C	2920 - 3020 °F
Solidus	1604 °C	2920 °F
Liquidus	1660 °C	3020 °F
Beta Transus	980 °C	1800 °F

 

Certifications

Daxun Alloy's pure titanium Grade 1 titanium tubes include:
Seamless titanium tubes and welded titanium tubes, crafted with exceptional ductility and cold formability, making them perfect for deep drawing. Grade 1 titanium tubes are renowned for their outstanding general and seawater corrosion resistance, as well as superb resistance to oxidizing, neutral, and slightly reducing media (solutions), including chlorides.
Titanium's low density (approximately half that of nickel-based alloys), coupled with its high strength, light weight, and corrosion resistance, renders it an excellent choice for a myriad of harsh chemical environments. Execution standards include: ASTM B338 | ASTM B265 | ASME SB265 | ASTM F67 | ISO 5832-2 | 3.7025 | UNS R50250.

Grade 2 Titanium Tube (UNS R50400 / Werkstoff WS 3.7034)

This is the most prevalently used titanium tube for industrial applications, offering a superb equilibrium of moderate strength and reasonable ductility. It boasts outstanding corrosion resistance in both highly oxidizing and slightly reducing conditions, including chlorides. This tube is ideal for use in the chemical and offshore industries, aircraft manufacturing, heat exchangers, hypochlorite systems, fire water systems, ballast water systems, CPI equipment, and pipes.

Fabrication

Titanium Grade 2 adeptly responds to cold forming using standard techniques. It can be easily machined, but special care must be taken to maintain sharp tools and generously use coolant. Similar to machining austenitic stainless steels, cuts should be deep and continuous with slow feeds and speeds.

Stock Availability

Daxun Alloys maintains an extensive inventory of CP 2 Grade Titanium Seamless and Welded Pipes in various sizes.

Weight Reduction

CP 2 grade titanium tubes feature low density and a high strength-to-weight ratio, making them ideal for applications demanding weight reduction without compromising strength. They are cold formable, exhibit good ductility, and can be welded using conventional TIG and MIG processes, with inert gas shielding necessary to prevent embrittlement of the weld zone.

Crystal Structure

At room temperature, ASTM B338 Grade 2 titanium tube possesses an alpha (hexagonal close-packed) crystal structure, akin to commercially pure titanium grades 1 and 3. At approximately 885°C (1625°F), it transitions to a beta (body-centered cubic) structure. This transformation temperature can be adjusted based on impurities or alloying additions. Alloying elements also split the single equilibrium transformation temperature into two zones: the alpha transformation zone (below which the alloy remains alpha) and the beta transformation zone (above which the alloy is all beta). Between these temperatures, both alpha and beta forms coexist. Typical alpha and beta transformation temperatures for Grade 2 titanium are 890°C (1635°F) and 913°C (1675°F), respectively.

Grade 2 Titanium Seamless Pipe Manufacturing Process

Daxun's ASTM B338 Grade 2 titanium seamless tubes are produced from hollow blanks using hot extrusion or oblique rolling and piercing processes, followed by multiple cold rolling operations. Throughout manufacturing, titanium seamless tubes should have continuous perimeters. The production process includes: vacuum arc melting of sponge titanium ingots, blanking to obtain hollow blanks, cleaning, cutting and feeding, hot extrusion or oblique rolling plus piercing, degreasing, drying, cutting, online annealing and straightening, pickling, multiple cold rolling, degreasing, drying, vacuum annealing, straightening, cutting, pickling, final inspection, marking (DAXUN), and packaging.

Grade 2 Titanium Welded Pipe Manufacturing Process

Experience the precision and excellence of Daxun's ASTM B338 Grade 2 titanium welded pipes, meticulously crafted from annealed flat-rolled steel plate or steel strip using the advanced automatic arc welding (TIG) process. Our comprehensive production process includes: titanium plate uncoiling, shearing, butt welding, cleaning, pipe forming, TIG welding, eddy current testing, pre-sizing, annealing, precision reducing and sizing, straightening, eddy current testing, caliper marking, cutting, ultrasonic testing, hydrostatic testing, final inspection, and packaging. To ensure optimal performance, all welded pipes undergo at least one stress relief heat treatment post-forming and welding. Daxun guarantees top-notch quality without employing any filler materials during welding.

Discover the Superior Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Pipe - Grade 5 Titanium Tube

High-Performance Titanium Alloy - (UNS R56400)
Introduction
Introducing DAXUN's Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Tube, Grade 5 (UNS R56400) - the epitome of popularity among titanium alloys. This duplex alpha+beta alloy utilizes aluminum as the alpha stabilizer and vanadium as the beta stabilizer, offering remarkable strength even at low temperatures around 800°F (427°C). ATI Ti-6Al-4V, Grade 5 alloy is ideal for annealing, solution treating, and aging. It's the go-to material for compressor blades, disks, and rings in jet engines, fuselage and space capsule components, pressure vessels, *** cases, helicopter rotor hubs, fasteners, and critical high strength-to-weight ratio forgings.
Crafted with Precision: The alloy is initially melted using state-of-the-art vacuum arc (VAR), electron beam (EB), or plasma arc hearth melting (PAM) techniques, with remelting achieved through one or two vacuum arc steps for unparalleled quality.
Specifications
• ASTM B338 - Standard Heat Treatable Titanium Tube
• AMS 4928 - Forgings and Forging Stock (Annealed)
• AMS 4965 - Forgings (Solution Treated and Aged)
• AMS 4967 - Forgings (Annealed, Heat Treatable)

Physical Properties

Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Tube Melting Range: 2,800-3,000°F (1,538 - 1,649°C)
Density: 0.160 lb/in3; 4.47 g/cm3
Beta Transus Temperature: 1830°F (± 25°); 999°C (± 14°)

Heat Treatment

For high hardness, tensile strength, and fatigue strength, anneal at 1,700-1,900°F (927 - 1,038°C).
DAXUN 6-4 Grade 5 Titanium Tube offers versatile heat treatment options:
1. Annealing: 1,275 -1,400°F (691 - 760°C) for ½ to 2 hours, followed by air or furnace cooling.
2. Stress Relief Annealing: 1,000 -1,200°F (538 - 649°C) for 1 to 8 hours, with air or furnace cooling.
3. Solution Heat Treating: 1,675 -1,750°F (913 - 954°C) for 1 hour, followed by water quenching.
4. Aging: 975 -1,025°F (524 - 552°C) for 4 to 8 hours, then air cool.

Optimum Properties

Achieve superior properties with small cross sections and rapid quenching in the solution treated and aged condition. Larger cross-section sizes and/or delayed quenching may impact optimal properties.

Hardness

Typical hardness is Rockwell C 30-34 in the annealed condition and Rockwell C 35-39 in the solution treated and aged condition.

Forgeability/Formability

The DAXUN Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Tube, Grade 5 Titanium Tube boasts exceptional forgeability. It is forged at a temperature of 1,750°F (954°C) with a final forging temperature of 1,450°F (788°C). To achieve optimal results, a reduction of at least 35% is highly recommended.

Our DAXUN Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Tube, Grade 5 Titanium Tube presents challenges in forming at room temperature, even when annealed. Therefore, critical forming operations such as bending or stretching should be performed on the annealed material at elevated temperatures up to 1,200°F (649°C), ensuring no alteration in its mechanical properties. For hot sizing or forming, creep forming is a viable method, with temperatures ranging from 1,000 to 1,200°F (538 to 649°C).

Machinability

The DAXUN Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Tube, Grade 5 Titanium Tube can be expertly machined using techniques suitable for austenitic stainless steels. This involves employing slow speeds, high feeds, and ensuring robust tool rigidity, along with the utilization of ample non-chlorinated cutting fluids.

Weldability

The DAXUN Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Tube, Grade 5 Titanium Tube demonstrates excellent weldability in both the annealed and solution-aged conditions. Post-weld heat treatment includes an aging process.

Post-weld heat treatment ensures the desired properties are achieved. It is crucial to prevent contamination with oxygen, nitrogen, and hydrogen. Fusion welding should be performed in an inert gas-filled chamber or using an inert gas tail shield over the molten metal and adjacent hot zones. Spot welding, seam welding, and flash welding can also be executed without requiring a protective atmosphere.

Special Considerations

The DAXUN Ti-6Al-4V Titanium Tube, Grade 5 Titanium Tube must be handled with care to prevent hydrogen contamination from improper pickling and the absorption of oxygen, nitrogen, and carbon during various processes such as forging, heat treating, and brazing. Such contamination may negatively impact ductility, notch sensitivity, and formability.

FAQ

 

Q1: What products can you offer?

A: We provide a diverse range of general steel types, including 310S, 316L, 304, 304L, 201, 904L, 316H, 316, 316L, and 300 series.
Additionally, we offer 400 series steels and duplex stainless steels such as 2205, 2304, 2101, 2507, and more. High-nickel alloys like 904L, 800H, and 600H are also available.

Q2. Can you produce the products according to my own drawings?

Yes, we can manufacture products based on your drawings to fully meet your specifications and satisfaction.

Q3. How does your factory handle quality control?

Quality is our top priority. We maintain strict quality control standards from start to finish in every production process.

Q4. Can I request a change in packaging and transportation methods?

Yes, we can modify packaging and transportation methods according to your requirements.
However, you will need to bear any additional costs incurred during this period and any price differentials.

Q5. How does your factory handle quality control?

Quality is our top priority. We maintain stringent quality control measures from the beginning to the end of the production process.

Q6. How long is the delivery time?

A: Standard delivery time is 7 to 20 working days after payment confirmation.
For urgent orders, we can expedite the production process to meet earlier deadlines.

Q7. What are your payment terms?

A: 100% T/T advance, Western Union (for small orders)

B: 30% T/T in advance, with the remaining 70% before shipment

C: 100% Irrevocable LC at sight (for large orders)

Q8: Can you produce Deep Drawing Quality (DDQ) materials?

A: Yes, we can. Our materials are suitable for manufacturing stainless steel pots, sinks, bowls, etc. Let us know your specific applications, and we will adjust the mechanical properties accordingly.

Q9: How can I obtain a sample?

A: FREE samples are available for your evaluation and testing. For small pieces, we may cover the courier cost depending on the circumstances.

Q10: Which countries have you exported to?

A: We have exported stainless steel materials to numerous countries, including Vietnam, Thailand, Turkey, Russia, Morocco, Korea, India, Pakistan, UAE, Ukraine, and more.

Q11: How can I visit your company?

A: You can fly to Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport, and we will arrange for your pick-up from there.